You are three men of sin, whom Destiny,
That hath to instrument this lower world
And what is in't, the never-surfeited sea
Hath caused to belch up you; and on this island
Where man doth not inhabit; you 'mongst men
Being most unfit to live. I have made you mad;
And even with such-like valour men hang and drown
Their proper selves.
The Tempest. Act iii. Sc. 3
It seems to me that there are several things that could be hints about
the importance of memory, if not to actually support the idea that maybe
something/someone is messing with the survivor's memories. The fact that
Charlie and Claire both have memory losses made me think. The flashback
structure heightens the importance of memory. The structure may turn out
to be more relevant than simply a device to introduce back story.
Memory
The survivors are in a situation where they don't have any of the normal
memory cues that connect us to everyday life. Everything is, in a sense,
new to them (Tabula Rasa). Aside from the trauma of the crash, they are
disconnected from almost everything familiar and comfortable to them:
no loved ones, no job, no car, no restaurant you go to on Thursday nights.
Not only are they disconnected from their everyday life, they are also
disconnected from cues that would remind them of other memories: the bicycle
that reminds you of your dad teaching you to ride when you were a kid,
the restaurant that reminds you of a first date, etc. There are few objects
on the island that would be memory cues. The longer they are on the island
the more their memories will fade: faces, voices, what it feels like to
talk on the phone, or turn on a light.
Amnesia
Amnesia is about what is lost, what is absent, hidden, invisible, or,
sometimes what is lurking in the seam between light and dark -- the almost
grasped. Claire's case is extreme and obvious; it exemplifies the fear
and confusion involved, the struggle to remember, the struggle to make
sense of what is remembered. In general a sense, perhaps they are all
suffering from a gradual, creeping amnesia. I'm not saying that they are
forgetting everything about their lives before the plane crash. I'm just
pointing out that they will slowly lose details about their pasts; and
without any triggers, there will be things they never remember again.
Theoretically, I think it's possible that someone or something may be
altering or erasing some memories. It may be easier for them to do this
in the cue-poor environment of the island.
Paramnesia
What does the mind do when confronted with forgetfulness? It creates.
It tries to create stories that explain what is absent, what is in the
gap. It inserts necessary details when they are missing. That's notable,
but normal functioning. Paramnesia, on the other hand, is a memory disorder
in which dreams or fantasies are confused with reality. The hallucinations
seem to fit into this idea. Again, I think it's possible that some external
force may be messing with/using their memories.
So, here are a few specifics:
Claire: She's the one suffering from the biggest memory loss, so it will
be interesting to see how they play it out in future episodes. But there
are a couple of other things that seem sort of important about Claire:
1) Claire was missing for two weeks, or if you will, absent. It's almost
like the cliche: out of sight, out of mind. Not that people didn't remember
her, but maybe somehow their memories aren't functioning normally. The
memory they did have didn't compel them to act. 2) It's also interesting
that Claire was the one to give the "memorial" for the dead
on the plane. 3) Claire's baby, and the fact that infants and toddlers
don't store and process memories the way adults do.
Charlie: His memory seems faulty or altered. After being abducted he says
he can't remember anything. But then he remembers that they only wanted
Claire. He says "they" took Claire, but then in the next episode
he backtracks and says it was "a person, or people." I also
think it's interesting that Homecoming started out with Charlie asleep.
This might tie in to the paramnesia idea. Not that the whole episode was
a dream, but he may be affected by this in some way.
Ethan: It may be that Ethan can in some way control/erase memories. Ethan,
like the monster, "disappears" and is absent. Even his presence
is peppered with the ephemeral, the barely grasped: Who is he? What is
he? Did he really beat up Jack? Did he really kill Scott?
The Monster: Emblematic of the facets of amnesia: the absence, the invisible.
It also evokes the reactions of amnesia: bewilderment, disassociation,
making up meanings (different people react to it in different ways). The
fact that Boone was hallucinating when he saw the monster also ties in
to the idea of paramnesia.
Tabula Rasa: The concepts of amnesia and a "clean slate" obviously
intersect. Many of these characters seem to long to leave the past behind
and start anew. On the one hand, amnesia would be a bewildering experience.
On the other, it could be a freeing experience -- the beauty of seeing
the world as for the first time (eg, Locke).
Children: It may be that a lack of memory is the reason Alex and Claire's
baby are objects of interest. Adults don't usually remember events before
the age of 3 or 4. It may be that there's some sort of developmental reason
the children are important. They are truly Tabula Rasa. It might be for
indoctrination purposes, or maybe there is something chemical going on
that is of interest to whoever would want them, or maybe something Monster-of-Id
happening.
Sayid: He rather significantly leaves an object behind at Danielle's (the
picture of Nadia), indicating a desire to forget?
Danielle: She is longest on the island and slightly crazy from it. Yet
she clings to the music box because it's a cue that helps her remember
who she was before. Kate's toy plane and Michael's box of drawings are
also objects as cues to memories. Kate and Michael have 're-collected'
their lost objects. Cases/boxes, in general, may be some kind of symbol
for memories.
spooky
Locke worked for a BOX company. Oooh, coincidence? That is an unusual
profession, no offense to people that work at box companies, but I don't
think it is a coincidence.
Good theory, spooky!
Maybishudbahippy
spooky,
Bravo!
Very well thought-out.
Thank you for sharing.
Rest assured we will be revisiting this theory as further episodes air.
purrkins
spooky, another brilliant and thoughtful post. I'm so glad that someone
is looking at LOST as a text, that is, reading its themes as they manifest
in both the large and small.
Quote:
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There are few objects on the island that would be memory cues. The longer
they are on the island the more their memories will fade: faces, voices,
what it feels like to talk on the phone, or turn on a light. -------------------
And they build new memories which may take the place of the old, as do their new relationships with one another (here is where the paramnesia idea fits as well).
Quote:
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In general a sense, perhaps they are all suffering from a gradual, creeping
amnesia. . .it may be easier for them to do this in the cue-poor environment
of the island.
-------------------
So a kind of reversal, in the sense almost of developmental reversal?
Quote:
-------------------
2) It's also interesting that Claire was the one to give the "memorial"
for the dead on the plane.
-------------------
Great catch!!
Quote:
-------------------
I also think it's interesting that Homecoming started out with Charlie
asleep. This might tie in to the paramnesia idea.
-------------------
Another great point. While Charlie was asleep, Claire found her way back. Assuming the episode wasn't a dream, was he able to influence her flight, guide her home?
Quote:
-------------------
Ethan: It may be that Ethan can in some way control/erase memories. Ethan,
like the monster, "disappears" and is absent. Even his presence
is peppered with the ephemeral, the barely grasped: Who is he? What is
he? Did he really beat up Jack? Did he really kill Scott?
-------------------
Yes, Ethan is a "mutable" causal signifier: we project onto him what we would like to believe (that is, a single cause behind the mystery).
Quote:
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The Monster: Emblematic of the facets of amnesia: the absence, the invisible.
It also evokes the reactions of amnesia: bewilderment, disassociation,
making up meanings (different people react to it in different ways).
-------------------
It is in the first few years of life that most neural pathways are formed. Because I read mostly about music, I can point out that the early development affects auditory processing. Thus perfect pitch is thought impossible to develop after three, and the ability to acquire language is impaired by adolescence. However, early pathways may lead to new and different ones later (we are always making connections) than those forged without certain stimuli. So this might fit into a scientific explanation that proposes producing gifted children by encouraging heretofore untested connections.
Quote:
-------------------
Sayid: He rather significantly leaves an object behind at Danielle's (the
picture of Nadia), indicating a desire to forget?
Danielle: ...clings to the music box ... Kate and Michael have 're-collected'
their lost objects.
-------------------
So important! These are, as you say, markers of memory, and lost objects or standing in their absence for lost objects (as does the signifier itself, of course). Claire's diary represents her lost memory, the coffin the lost father, Sawyer's letter the lost parents and his lost mission in life, the wheelchair, Locke's old life (thus now it is gone). Who/what is not represented? There is no significant reminder of Walt's mom, of Boone and Shannon's family, of Hurley's past (although we may find that out). In other words, those items that we are presented with are there for a pointed reason.
drabauer
Spooky,
Thanks again for compiling good info. Tonight, I'm going to be on the
lookout.
Also a timely topic outside of the show. There has been a lot of stuff
lately on NPR regarding how memory works - specifically related to false
memories vs. real - and the priest molestations in the catholic church.
Anyway, that's off topic but I can't help question what is real and false
in LOST.
sawyerhasbestlines
Quote:
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It's also interesting that Claire was the one to give the "memorial"
for the dead on the plane.
------------
Spooky -- I like how you make these connections...are you a former English Major?
On memory -- we should apply your insight to the backstories. We are seeing
their memories; do we trust what they remember? Are they objective memories
or purely subjective? It seems the flashbacks are from a first person
point of view, in that we discover information at the same time the characters
do. Many people, when they remember things, color their memories, recalling
what they want to, creating new scenarios, and forgeting the rest (as
SHTBL points out). Al Tompkins, a reporter and essayist, says that we
don't remember facts, but emotions. How might this color what we see of
their past?
trinabobina
Quote:
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So a kind of reversal, in the sense almost of developmental reversal?
------------
I wasn't really thinking about it like that, but it's an interesting idea. I was thinking that without cues to trigger the memory it might feel a bit like amnesia, especially the longer they are there. It's like when you travel or go into the wilderness for an extended time. You sort of forget about your previous life, and things feel strange for a while when you get back to "real" life.
Quote:
------------
Assuming the episode wasn't a dream, was he able to influence her flight,
guide her home?
------------
I like that idea. I wonder if Locke could have been more influential in Boone's hallucination than I previously imagined.
Quote:
------------
Spooky -- I like how you make these connections...are you a former English
Major?Guilty as charged. I knew it would come in handy some day.
Quote:
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On memory -- we should apply your insight to the backstories. We are seeing
their memories; do we trust what they remember? Are they objective memories
or purely subjective?
------------
Yes, definitely. I was kind of taking the back stories at face value. Maybe it's just because I want some part of the show to be reliable since everything else is so indeterminate. But it would definitely be interesting to see if we start getting differing points of view.
------------------------
Okay, since there's nothing much going on I just wanted to follow-up on
a couple of thoughts...
Trinabonina wrote:
Quote:
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We are seeing their memories; do we trust what they remember? Are they
objective memories or purely subjective? It seems the flashbacks are from
a first person point of view, in that we discover information at the same
time the characters do.
------------
During ...In Translation there is a slight difference in the scene with Jin and Sun in the bathroom from the scene in House of the Rising Sun. Sun's point of view is bit more sympathetic in House (Jin seems more sinister); and Jin's point of view is slightly more sympathetic in In Translation (Sun seems less concerned and more demanding). There are a couple of lines of dialogue that are different, but it's really more a matter of slight adjustments by the actors. It's interesting that they went to so much trouble to show a subtle difference. I think they want the flashbacks to be realistic and trustworthy, but recognize that different people experience the same situation in different ways.
The only other thing I have to add is about Locke's scene with Claire.
Locke says he can help her with her memory and he's "good at putting
bits and pieces together." It made me remember that he told Boone
he was a "collection" supervisor. It'll be interesting to see
how he can help her with her memory.
Oh, and Sayid got his picture of Nadia back. I wonder if it will have
any implications for his relationship with Shannon...
spooky
Spooky: I can't believe I'm just getting around to reading this. Excellent
take on stuff that's been rolling around in my head but I couldn't seem
to put into a cohesive thought. Keep adding to it as we learn more things.
I love it.
I think one of the major themes of the show is the creation of self. To
do that, however, the characters must relinquish who they were in the
past, throw off the shackles of guilt that confine them and define who
they really are. Memories play an important role in who we become. Without
them I don't see how we can be who we are.
Destruction of memory can be traumatic but it can also be therapeutic
for those who memories have become a burden. Take away the memory - free
the soul. We now have characters who are free to be who they want to be.
The choice is theirs and that's a powerful choice to have. I can't wait
to see what they do with it.
JacksGirlfriend
To tie this one thread to the matrix theory started by neill....
Isn't it curious that every character that has had a flashback has also
had a revelation from the island? Like some kind of induced memory can
trigger a positive way of thinking.
So like four years ago Hurley has his number jinks, Locke an accident
that cripples him just exactly like Michael has 2 broken legs, and Jack
"backstabs" his father... hmm
lacenaire
To paraphrase Locke:
"If you want something from the island you have to give it something
in return".
Or something along those lines.
Coyote1066
Spooky wrote:
Quote:
----------------------
The only other thing I have to add is about Locke's scene with Claire.
Locke says he can help her with her memory and he's "good at putting
bits and pieces together." It made me remember that he told Boone
he was a "collection" supervisor. It'll be interesting to see
how he can help her with her memory.
----------------------
While Locke didn't say that directly to Claire, I've always been a bit puzzled about why that box factory would need a Collections department. In a company that sells to other companies, there isn't a dedicated collections department: they do a credit check on the buyer, determine just how likely said customer will pay an invoice, & bill them accordingly: a company with good credit is given 30 days to pay (sometimes with a discount if they pay within 15), a company with bad credit may be required to pay in full before the order is even filled. And it would be just as easy for the responsible salesman (helped by a VP or even the company president) to be tasked with getting the delinquent customer to pay up.
So unless the writers made a mistake here, I find it hard to imagine Locke
spending an entire workday in a cubicle making sure his fellow workers
are collecting on past due debts.
Unless what he was collecting was not debt payments. Perhaps he was in
charge of collecting items from customers to fill the boxes.
llywrch
JG wrote:
Quote:
--------------------------------
Destruction of memory can be traumatic but it can also be therapeutic
for those who memories have become a burden. Take away the memory - free
the soul. We now have characters who are free to be who they want to be.
The choice is theirs and that's a powerful choice to have. I can't wait
to see what they do with it.
--------------------------------
Very nicely said. I think for some the choice has been theirs. But I can't help but wonder what happened with Charlie and Claire. I can't wait to find out, either.
llywrch wrote:
Quote:
--------------------------------
While Locke didn't say that directly to Claire
--------------------------------
From the transcript:
Locke: How's that coming? Your memory?
Claire: Bits and pieces here and there. Nothing that makes any real sense.
Locke: Well, maybe I can help. I'm good at putting bits and pieces together.
Am I missing something? It seems pretty direct to me.
spooky
I was thinking (dangerous) that Locke built the crib or cradle to jog
Claire's memory about her dream, but then Locke didn't know anything about
what was in her dream or did he?
Tinstaafl69
Quote:
--------------------------------
Am I missing something? It seems pretty direct to me.
--------------------------------
I was talking about Locke being a Collections manager. He mentions this to Boone in a prior episode.
llywrch
Okay. I didn't say that Locke said that to Claire, so I was confused,
but it really doesn't matter.
I know next to nothing about corporate accounting departments, but I'd
be surprised if there was no such thing as collections, even b2b. I know
I get calls occasionally from a vendor asking me where payment is. In
any case, I was thinking in more metaphoric terms.
spooky
Quote:
--------------------------------
Isn't it curious that every character that has had a flashback has also
had a revelation from the island? Like some kind of induced memory can
trigger a positive way of thinking.
--------------------------------
hi, the flashback thing is something we really need to examine- as it
makes up so much of the series...
so,,, are they really flashbacks ?
I mean like actual events from the past, not in this case, I think
are they just the characters thoughts- their own personal views ? --Here's
where we might make a mistake -- because characters actually have no thoughts
-- they are only the thoughts of the author, and what he wants to show
us !
MELOSTMO
Great post spooky!
Melostmo - not quite sure where you're headed with this. We know the characters
aren't "real" and their words are based on a script. Each individual
story is woven by the author to create a tapestry of mystery and story-telling.
If I misunderstood you, could you please elaborate for me?
anarane saralonde
I just noticed the Google ads on the top must be smart ads, right? Because
they are about memory. Freaked me out for a sec before I recalled that
computers do that now!
laugh with me, not at me...
athywithak
This stuff reminds me of an exhibit I once saw about Geoffery Sonnabend.
His theory is that memory is an artificial construct -- the real mechanism
is forgetting, the decay of experience.
www.mjt.org/exhibits/oblisci.html
"We, amnesiacs all, condemned to live in an eternally fleeting present,
have created the most elaborate of human constructions, memory, to buffer
ourselves against the intolerable knowledge of the irreversible passage
of time and the irretrieveability of its moments and events."
Could the island be another elaborate construction? Clearly the islanders
have shared some sort of experience, but the process of forgetting seems
to have taken a wild turn from the speleain disk.
EllaGuru