You are three men of sin, whom Destiny,
That hath to instrument this lower world
And what is in't, the never-surfeited sea
Hath caused to belch up you; and on this island
Where man doth not inhabit; you 'mongst men
Being most unfit to live. I have made you mad;
And even with such-like valour men hang and drown
Their proper selves.
The Tempest. Act iii. Sc. 3
I've looked through the links and have seen this possibility discussed. I was skeptical at first but am increasingly convinced the island is manifesting the passengers' own fears. I believe this not only explains each strange occurrence so far, it also fits neatly into the Lord of the Flies influence that hangs heavily over this show. Consider the following:
At least least some of the characters (certainly the black lady and possibly
Jack) are afraid of flying. Perhaps hitting turbulence, combined with
their resulting fear of crashing--both of which presumably took place
in the proximity of the island--was what caused the crash in the first
place. Similarly, it's been noted that someone (the black lady?) says
the forest monster sounds familiar. Maybe she had something specific in
mind--which is what led to its creation in the first place.
Then there's the polar bear in the comic book that has been mentioned.
If the island (or something on it) is manifesting things, then Walt need
not be magical at all. The same is true of the rain stopping when Walt
and Michael are talking. Some take this to mean that Walt controls the
weather. I think it more likely that the island stops the rain in response
to Michael's obvious terror at the thought of going into the jungle to
look for Vincent.
And what to make of Shannon's centrality to the French distress call?
Ive heard it suggested that maybe the voice is hers from the future. I
think it more likely that the call was manifested in response to her fear
of not being rescued. Remember, she is almost irrationally adamant that
they will be saved. This suggests to me that she secretly fears they won't.
She also has a complex about her french--just a coincidence?
Aside from these points, I'm attracted to this theory because it ties
into a larger influence that's been mentioned on these boards: Lord of
the Flies. Everything about the show suggests an ironic play on this book.
The characters are stranded by a plane crash. Here, however, the voice
of civilization is named Jack (in the book, Jack embodies the opposite
impulse). His nemesis is the blond Sawyer (in the book, civilization's
representative is a blond boy named Ralph). There is a Piggy and (reportedly)
wild boars. Most importantly, the theme of fear of the unknown is central
to both.
The survivors don't know it yet, but the island is manifesting their fears.
Look for them to divide up based on how they deal with their inability
to comprehend what is happening to them.
PS: Does anyone else think Jack's drinking problem may be linked somehow
to another crash or accident involving planes in his past? I really think
it's significant that he mentions to Kate that he tried flying but it
wasn't for him.
awsecond
This has been discussed before. The producers have said that everything
in the show will be based on science or pseudo-science; there won't be
any science fantasy like what you're describing here.
Also, Jack doesn't have a drinking problem. In a recent interview Matthew
Fox quashed this rumor. He intimated that other members of Jack's family
might have a drinking problem, but Jack himself doesn't.
maxpublic
Thanks for tip, Max. I'm new to this board and thought I'd read most of
the interviews, but apparently not. I will try again, but would welcome
any direction you can offer on where specifically to look.
At the risk of beating a dying horse, I'd also note there's no reason
why there can't be a pseudo-scientific explanation for the island's manifestations.
After all, such scenarios have been the mainstay of science fiction like
Sphere and Solaris for years. I wouldn't be shocked to learn that alien
technology is the pseudo-scientific explanation behind the island's strange
powers.
PS: Thanks for the correction re Jack's drinking. Do you have any speculations
about the significance of his statement to Kate that he tried flying but
it wasn't for him?
awsecond
Then why didn't we see Jack start running real fast, or Sawyer pull out
a glowing ring. For that manor when Sawyer found all of the playboys then
why wasn't Kate all over him and naked. It doesn't seem to be that to
me.
CatchFoundAlias
Not dreams, fears. The island is manifesting their fears. Remember that
in Lord of the Flies the marooned children are afraid there's a monster
on the island. It turns out that the monster is simply a metaphor for
their fear of the unknown--the real monster is inside them. That sounds
an awful lot like Lost to me...
awsecond
The interview is actually a video clip which you can download from this
site.
The producers nixed the whole idea of fears coming to life, along with
other ideas like everyone actually being dead and in purgatory, dinosaurs
on the island, etc. And that's a good thing, since if this were true "Lost"
would be nothing more than a rehash of "Forbidden Planet", a
movie released back in 1956 (and a very good one, too). The last thing
I want to see is a modern-day remake of a classic.
Although don't let that stop you from speculating. Despite what the producers
have said there are folks here who've decided to ignore them and explore
these very ideas.
maxpublic
Forgive my incompetence, Max, but I've watched the videos in the media
section, and have done several searches on this board. I still can't find
the interview your referring to. (The closest was Charlie's statment on
ET that the monster's not a dinosaur.)
Can you remember any other details? Was the link in a post, or in some
other section of the lost-tv site? Do you recall which tv show did the
interview? I am absolutely dying to see this clip!
awsecond
Quote:
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Forgive my incompetence, Max, but I've watched the videos in the media
section
------------------------------------------------------------------------
No, I think I accidentally misled you. The producers did several separate
interviews before the show started; at least one of the published articles
appeared months before the pilot. I didn't keep track of any of these
and have no idea where to point you for downloads (if there are any yet).
Perhaps a more obsessive fan knows of some links where you can go.
That would actually be a good idea, to have a pinned list of canonical
links for everyone to take a look at.
maxpublic
As much as I love this show, the survival of ANYBODY after a third of
a plane freefalls 30,000 feet onto an island bothers the heck out of me.
Too much of the plane is intact. And the trees around the cockpit...no
way they'd still be standing. Even falling straight down out of the sky,
the cockpit section of the plane would have created enough of an impact
to crush those trees it was leaning on.
If the plane had simply coasted into the beach, I'd live with that. It
has happened before. But that couldn't have happened to our beloved characters'
plane, because it broke up and so would have lost all of its aerodynamic
gliding qualities.
If they aren't dreaming, or in purgatory or a triage station for the afterlife
or something, what explains their survival?
If there isn't a quasi-rational explanation for this all (i.e., they are
dreaming the whole thing as they are actually falling through the sky,
or somehow the physics of the Philadelphia Experiment they are living
through managed to land them relatively gently), I'm going to be mighty
disappointed.
Dmcquickly
DMC: Go to "If they do get off the island."
JacksGirlfriend
Re: If dreams were the responsible factor for what is...
I believe you're correct that fear manifestation is indeed a form of pseudoscience.
Pseudoscience by definition is a knowledge base that doesn't meet scientific
method criteria such as reproducing results through experiment. It's essentially
something accepted by people though it lacks a proof base, or something
accepted by a group of people because it cannot be disproved by science.
Examples include a whole list or parapsychological pseudosciences that
could apply to this show and your theory in general:
Characterology, Pathognomy (the study of passions and emotions), Photoreading,
recovered memories, Cryptozoology, Pseudoarchaeology, channeling and divining,
the Hollow Earth theory, Cubic Time theories, materialization, Sychronicity.
I could read into each on of these and think they could apply to our show.
if the producers said the show was based on science or pseudoscience they
really didn't narrow it down as much as some of us may be thinking.
jessicarose
Enough with Walt and the polar bear already, if he could manifest it why
would he have it go after a group of people he hasn't even had time to
get to know, like or dislike. He obviously has problems with his dad,
so if he could somehow subconsciously manifest a polar bear it would have
chased his dad not a group of strangers. It was just a coincidence. Let
it go.
Baron X
You absolutely have to love a board where someone would mention "canonical
links."
Many thanks to maxpublic for making me smile today!
drypelia
I'm beginning to lose some faith in this show, as it appears to be spiraling
into the death trap that ended "Earth 2." Anyone remember that
show? Similar set-up, except the survivors were stranded on an alien planet
when their colony ship broke apart. It was their target planet, but they
didn't land on the target site, so they had to salvage equipment and start
the trek. So the story begins...
Anyway, what could have been an excellent science fiction-adventure show
(based on "believable pseudoscience," whatever that means) quickly
turned to mysticism and dream communication and the Gaia hypothesis and
all sorts of psychobabble tommy-rot. After one season, it went "on
hiatus," as they say in TV-world, and it never came back.
Now look at LOST. Plane cracks up, crashes, lots of survivors, salvageable
wreckage, character conflicts, mysterious happenings and creatures on
the island...first two episodes were dynomite, except they had hints of
weirdo mysticisim which were amplified in #3. Examples: boy sees polar
bear in comic book, polar bear shows up on tropical island; boy's dad
promises to look for boy's dog as soon as the rain stops, and suddenly
the thundering downpour stopped dead on a dime. Boy is quickly becoming
the boy character of Earth 2 (Ule, I think was his name) - he was the
one who channeled the native inhabitants and just went weird. Boy on LOST
appears to be channeling all sorts of weird stuff.
If this trend continues - mark my words - LOST will not return for season
2. It may not even survive season 1. A good premise may be ruined if the
writers rely too much on the mysticism crutch.
Zambini Stardust
Or, this could all be a set-up to confound us viewers.
Dmcquickly
Further evidence from an interview with J.J. Abrams himself:
"If you have a monster ... you call it a monster ... then it's sort
of disposable and silly and feels kind of irrelevant or gimmicky,"
he said. "If you have something that represents terror and represents
fear and represents sort of the darkness of this place, to me that's incredibly
valuable."
starbulletin.com/2004/07/...tory6.html
Or this, also from Dominic Monaghan:
"I think the monster itself actually represents what we're all scared
of," suggests Monaghan, making his U.S. TV series debut here. "For
me, 'Lost' is a character study of 13 or 14 people who find themselves
thrown together in a situation where, through no fault of their own, they
are called upon to face their personal demons."
awsecond
Although we also know this:
Acknowledging the bizarre elements, Lindelof was quick to point out: "This
show isn't 'The X-Files.' Everything that happens to these characters
is grounded to reality as we know it. Time and space are not bent."
And this:
"What we are trying to do is make sure everything has a very Scully
explanation," Fury said, referring to the X-Files character. "This
is not a show about the supernatural, despite the fact that we have a
very huge creature that likes to eat people. Despite the surreal, bizarre
aspects of the island, there will be an explanation for it. It may not
come for a very long time, but certain information about the island will
explain how things are possible. We'll try to root it in real science
or real pseudo-science. There will be no mystical reason or an island
of monsters."
maxpublic
Yes, that's what they said. I just don't think an island manifesting fears
(e.g., via alien technology) is any more "supernatural" or "x-files"
than the bermuda triangle. Each theory has its merits and problems. Neither,
I think, is ruled out by that quote.
awsecond
Max is living proof that science is a religion.
Abraxas
I agree, once again, with awsecond. The island manifesting the fears of
the occupants could be a "Scully" type of experience. It isn't
supernatural if you view it in the sense that strictly psychological merits
manifest the fears. For example, it's not that the island holds some mythical
power to make it do so, it's simply a large scale case of mass hysteria.
As a psychologist I've seen incredible cases of mind over body, especially
in people who have been witness to or experienced first hand incredible
trauma. Although the law prohibits me from getting into specific detail,
I will say this much: I've seen cases where the extent of traumatic influence
was so great that patients of mine started to report what may be viewed
as parapsychological phenom. We can't ever discount the extent that the
mind will go to heal it's own wounds.
I'm not saying that I totally agree with this theory, I am just attempting
to provide some sort of psychological insight. i see we already have those
versed in physics, and obviously philosophy as well, so I figure eight
years of college may as well come of some use here on the boards.
jessicarose
There's no doubt that the various fears of the survivors will play a role
in the show. But this isn't anything new; it's common to most dramas.
However, whatever is knocking down trees isn't a case of mass hysteria.
And whatever yanked the pilot out of the cockpit and chewed off his face
wasn't a delusion.
Quote:
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Max is living proof that science is a religion.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
That's got to be the most nonsensical thing I've heard anyone say on this
forum so far.
maxpublic